Breaking the Stigma: A Conversation with Carol Lee, the Superhero of Sex Workers

Welcome to another powerful and insightful episode of CKiara Nation! Tonight, we have a truly special guest—someone whose work and activism have significantly influenced our understanding of sexuality and sex work today. Joining us is none other than Carol Lee, also known as Scarlett Harlett, the champion of sex workers. Carol is the visionary who coined the term “sex work” and has dedicated decades to advocating for the rights, safety, and dignity of sex workers around the globe. Alongside my co-host, Mr. Michael Ellsberg, I, Ckiara, am honored to bring you this deeply personal and enlightening conversation about the politics of sexuality, the evolution of sex work, and the changes we still need to strive for.

A Personal Connection: How Carol Changed My Life

Before diving into the heavier topics, I want to share something personal. Carol Lee entered my life during one of my darkest times. I had been cut off by my family due to my involvement in sex work. I felt isolated, lost, and utterly abandoned. I was trapped in a toxic environment that was draining my spirit. Then, I found Carol. Or perhaps, she found me.

To me, she was more than just an activist—she became a mentor, a guiding light, and in many ways, a mother figure. She believed in me when I had lost faith in myself. She reminded me of my worth, my strength, and my potential. Thanks to her influence (and a little help from the universe), I stand here today, not merely surviving, but truly thriving.

Having her on this show is more than just an interview; it’s a full-circle moment. I can’t wait for all of you to hear her story.

The Early Years: Carol’s Journey into Activism

Carol Lee was raised in Jackson Heights, Queens, in a household that was politically aware. Her parents, who were socialists, actively participated in political discussions and always encouraged her to challenge authority. Having lived through the rise of Stalin, they were acutely aware of the shortcomings of both capitalism and socialism, which made their home a center for intellectual debate.

From an early age, Carol excelled academically, particularly in math and science. Her father was committed to ensuring she had the same opportunities as her male peers, urging her to defy gender stereotypes. However, there was another aspect to Carol—she was always in touch with her sexuality. Even as a child, she recognized her attraction to both boys and girls. While society imposed strict norms regarding gender and sexuality, Carol was already questioning those boundaries.

Her upbringing, which included navigating family expectations and facing restrictions due to her dating choices outside her religion, shaped her rebellious nature. She became aware of oppression on various fronts—gender, sexuality, and identity. When feminism began to gain momentum, she fully embraced it, viewing it as a means for both personal and collective freedom.

Finding Power in Sexuality

For Carol, sexuality was never solely about personal pleasure; it was intricately linked to power, politics, and identity. Her early interest in sex work stemmed from a mix of rebellion, self-discovery, and artistic expression. Dancing at the Golden Banana in Massachusetts was an experience that felt both erotic and empowering. Unlike traditional feminist narratives that depicted sex work as exploitation, Carol recognized the autonomy, excitement, and control that came with embracing one’s sexuality. However, she faced pushback.

Early radical feminists often regarded sex work as a surrender to male power, a viewpoint that clashed with Carol’s beliefs. She had witnessed how women in the industry reclaimed their stories, using their sexuality as a strength rather than a vulnerability. Her journey eventually took her to San Francisco, where she fully engaged in sex worker activism. It was there that she introduced the term “sex work,” transforming the conversation from one of victimization to one of empowerment.

The Birth of Sex Work Activism

Carol’s activism emerged from the pro-sex feminist movement, which sharply contrasted with the anti-porn and anti-sex work feminists of her era. She recognized that feminism was not merely about opposing male dominance; it was about empowering women to choose their own paths, whether that involved sex work or not.

She engaged in thought-provoking discussions with anti-porn feminists, including Macho Woman Gold, who authored Pornography: A License to Kill. During that time, there was a significant lack of recognition of sex workers as feminists, let alone as intellectuals and activists. However, Carol and her supporters began to change that narrative, demonstrating that sex work itself was not inherently degrading; rather, it was the stigma and criminalization associated with it that posed real dangers.

Through years of advocacy, she championed rights, safety, and decriminalization, laying the groundwork for many of the discussions we are having today regarding sex workers’ rights.

What Still Needs to Change?

While we’ve made progress, the fight is far from over. Sex work remains criminalized in many areas around the globe, forcing workers into dangerous situations. The stigma is still prevalent, leading many sex workers to live in secrecy, and isolation, and even face poverty when they attempt to shift to different careers. Laws like SESTA/FOSTA, which are intended to protect trafficking victims, often end up causing more harm by eliminating online platforms that sex workers rely on to vet clients and ensure their safety.

Carol believes that genuine change stems from education, policy reform, and solidarity. We must listen to sex workers and ensure they have a voice in discussions about laws that affect their lives. Most importantly, we need to acknowledge that sex work is indeed work.

Final Thoughts

Carol Lee’s journey embodies resilience, activism, and transformation. She has harnessed the lived experiences of countless sex workers to create a movement that persistently challenges outdated norms and advocates for meaningful change. This conversation transcended a mere interview; it was a celebration of the hard work, sacrifices, and victories of those who have fought for the rights of sex workers.

Thank you, Carol, for being a beacon of hope and a steadfast voice in this struggle. And to our listeners—continue to question, learn, and strive for a world where everyone’s choices are honored. Until next time, stay safe and stay empowered.

Here are 20 key points from Episode 5 of the podcast:

Special Guest Introduction – Carol Lee, aka Scarlett Harlett, is a pioneering sex worker and activist who coined the term “sex work.”
Personal Connection with Ckiara – Carol met Ckiara at a difficult time in her life when she felt ostracized by her family due to her involvement in sex work.
Carol’s Upbringing – She grew up in Queens, New York, in a socialist family that encouraged questioning authority.
Early Awareness of Sexuality – Carol realized she was bisexual during puberty and engaged in exploratory childhood games.
Challenges with Family Expectations – Her Jewish family disapproved of her dating non-Jewish men, leading to restrictions and emotional struggles.
Abusive Household – Carol experienced verbal abuse from her father and felt emotionally unprotected by her mother.
Identifying as a Sexual Outlaw – Her personal history and upbringing led her to embrace a bohemian lifestyle and reject societal norms.
Artistic Aspirations – She pursued acting and creative writing, studying poetry under Anne Sexton before Sexton’s suicide.
Activism in Youth – She protested against the Vietnam War and associated with draft dodgers in Canada.
Early Feminist Influence – Carol and her mother embraced feminism, which helped her understand gender oppression and her struggles.
Strong Feminist Views – She initially believed in female superiority and supported the rise of feminine energy in society.
Exposure to Anti-Porn Feminism – She encountered radical feminists who opposed pornography before entering the sex industry.
First Encounters with Sex Work – Carol danced at an amateur night in a strip club and found the experience thrilling and liberating.
Erotic Exploration – Her first strip performance led to a deeply personal and erotic experience with two men afterward.
Feminist Conflict on Sex Work – Radical feminists viewed sex work as capitulating to male power, while Carol saw it as an exploration of personal freedom.
Move to San Francisco – This relocation marked her full involvement in sex work and activism.
The Feminist Divide on Sex Work – There was a split between anti-porn feminists and sex-positive feminists, some of whom were sex workers themselves.
Community Among Feminists and Sex Workers – Carol was part of feminist writing groups that included both anti-porn activists and sex workers.
Blurring the Lines – Despite ideological differences, relationships formed between feminists and sex workers, including romantic ones.
Legacy of Activism – Carol’s journey from a radical feminist perspective to sex work advocacy helped shape modern discussions on sexual politics and women’s agency.

Welcome back to Ckiara Nation!

This week on Ckiara Nation, My Co-host Michael Ellsberg and I have as our guest the very fabulous terrific most excellent Carol Leigh also known as Harlot Scarlot. Yes indeed!

We discuss:

Growing up and being sexually abused by shaming through the broader culture.
Being Called a Madam by a “whatever side of the sex politics” is best for my career person.
Why won’t Feminists listen to women who are telling them, “I have no issue with using my body to earn money. I am not being raped! This is my choice!
SWERF’s deflecting personal sexual experience on others (not just sex workers, they tend to pretend to speak for society) and basing their movement from that, myth and misinformation not the broader experience or of each individual.
Seeing how Human trafficking (FOSTA/SESTA) and AIDS against gays and casual sex participants before that has been used to promote anti sex liberties issues to the population, especially against, sex workers and any non-heterosexual, sex expression, preference or choice (Polyamory, Open & BDSM relationships).
Do we look forward to COVID19 being a new reform or destructive weapon against those groups in the future?
Social Controls and punitive actions towards those who are disobeying.

See the rest of the rest of Unrepentant Scarlet Harlot interview in its entirety and all the uncensored Ckiara Nation videos and talks at http://wordpress-537568-1718157.cloudwaysapps.com and our Podcast: https://anchor.fm/ckiara-nation
More on: www.CkiaraNation.com